Colin — thanks for writing about the Mayo Clinic’s study on spring forest qigong. I’m curious how you determined there were no people told they were receiving qigong treatment but instead received a placebo.

The Mayo Clinic study was “randomized controlled” which is also called a “gold standard” study by methodology.

Have you considered the testimonies from the spring forest qigong website or that Chunyi Lin has co-authored a chapter for a Mayo Clinic medical textbook — with the other author being Mayo Clinic Dr. Nina Mishak. Maybe you would like to contact Dr. Nina Mishak if you are really interesting in finding out if qigong is real. The people giving their testimonies have been healed of serious conditions — late term cancer, M.S., Parkinsons, etc.

I took classes from Chunyi Lin to finish my masters degree at the University of Minnesota and I can assure you the energy transmissions from Chunyi Lin are very real. I realize that this reality is not accepted very easily in modern society but that is the beauty of investigating the unknown. There are other qigong masters to consider as well — for example Effie P. Chow was the first qigong master I experienced in person and she blew the fuse in the room behind us at a local university. John Chang’s qigong video on youtube is a very real presentation that is tested by western doctors. Harvard doctor David Eisenberg’s book “Encounters with Qi” is a great source. For deeper analysis try Dr. David Palmer’s book Qigong Fever — I’ve corresponded with Palmer and he sent me one of his articles. Palmer is now a professor in Hong Kong.

Have fun with your research and don’t give up so easily — you’ll find out the truth. If you’re really curious you can always just get a phone healing from Chunyi Lin or one of the other qigong masters he trained — Jim Nance for example. It’s difficult to even conceptualize what the qigong energy is like unless you experience it.

http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com/2011/10/university-senior-biologist-and.html

I hyper-texted the above comment so you can check out the links. All the best.

“I’m curious how you determined there were no people told they were receiving qigong treatment but instead received a placebo.”

I never said that anyone received a placebo. I said that they were not tested with a mock qigong treatment to determine whether or not actual qigong treatment is better than a similarly administered placebo.

Since writing this post I have been able to obtain the full text of the study. It only reinforces my claim that the study is sloppy and lacking adequate controls.

Expect a full rebuke of the paper later this week.

there is a thing called sonoluminescence. It´s kind of new. You produce light via waves into a fluid in cavitations, simplifying it here. Some researchers say this is what happens into the pineal gland of those who practice the Chinese techniques for more than 3 hours per day for a periode of 100 days non stop. Pineal gland has cavitations, fluid, and via vibrations in the vagur nerve you can affect it.
It´s one thing for you to research about chi kung.
Ok that there is lot´s of fake chikung too. As even chuniy lin, or master zhang says, a real master of this technique can sit in full-lotus for 4 hours nonstop. Why? Using Chinese terminology, we have a tendency to produce jing (electrochemical energy) in the lower body more than producing chi (electromagnetic energy) in the lower body, so the more jing harder to sit in that position. This is the Taoist explanation of if.
Also there is a good chunk of Chinese papers, ok, north-americans and British folks have a tendency to ignore other countries papers, but the communist party (it doesn´t like chikung and Daoism too) asked scientists to disprove chikung. The results were that, there can be effect into cell cultures, and even people. And the even they could not measure “chi” by itself, they could measure a high level of termo-electrical and ultra-sound coming from the chi emitter to the target, being it a cell culture or a person. So there is something there, they had to conclude, because they were honest and not traped by what David Noble (former M.I.T. teacher) calls as “religion of science”.
Go deep in your research, man.
Why don´t you try it you yourself?
Why don´t you practice the level 1 from spring forest chikung for 100 days, non-stop, at least 2 hours, why not 3hours?, per day? And let the results speaks for itself.
To define something you don´t know as fake, “woo-woo”, without deep research just demonstrates how trapped you are in the dogmas of the “religion of science”… after all the great thing about science is that it changes paradigms from time to time…
Also you should be aware math, one of the pillars of science had a limitation, called Commutative Ring, where AxB=BxA, it´s the basis of the transformation of all that is asymmetric into symmetry, of all that is divergence into convergence in science. Check the wolfram math site for the definition of non-commutative ring. Not much there! Even Alain Connes, the French mathematician had to converge the divergent when studying non-commutative systems.
And so, since, as in daoist traditional music, Taoist practices are based on what we westerns call non-commutative systems, our ways of measuring stuff are limited to analyzing it 100%.
There is a great space of study for those non-dogmatic into the world of Taoist traditions in math, music, medicine. It only depends on how honest the researcher is.
Love,
.g

Hi Colin — your name reminded me of biologist Tony Wright’s research which is also relevant to qigong. http://leftinthedark.org.uk/news I noticed you went to my book download site. So if you download my book you can read the research I’ve done on qigong — and I quote Tony Wright.

Another biologist you’ll want to check out is Dr. Mae-Wan Ho who focuses on quantum biophotons. Also Dr. Stuart Hameroff’s research is highly relevant.

These are scientist and there are many more — all who delve into this subject matter from the perspective of quantum biology. I realize that PZ Myers does not allow this type of research and PZ Myers also rejected the Fox News spring forest qigong report.

Unfortunately PZ Myers lives in Minnesota yet he refuses to actually investigate Spring Forest Qigong directly. Again he could just go to the Healing Center to find out himself whether qigong is real or he could call for a phone healing. haha. There are many doctors in Minnesota who recommend spring forest qigong.

For example James Randi attacked Chunyi Lin even though James Randi knew nothing about Chunyi Lin. haha. But someone complained to James Randi about Chunyi Lin because the person’s business had Chunyi Lin teach qigong. The justification for this teaching was because Chunyi Lin had also taught qigong directly to the Mayo Clinic doctors.

The Mayo Clinic is one of the most prestigious research hospitals in the world and so if the Spring Forest Qigong masters are actually giving qigong classes to the Mayo Clinic doctors it’s a great endorsement of the practice.

Colin I can assure you that I had a permanent mind-body transformation from my intensive qigong training which I did to finish my masters degree — that was in 2000. I have not taken a spring forest qigong class since 2005 and after 2001 I only took the classes intermittenly. I even stopped practicing qigong for several months just to see if the change I had experienced was permanent or not. The magnetic brain bliss is real! haha.

Have fun with your debunking attempt. Since you’re in California be sure to check out Effie P. Chow in S.F. I actually went to S.F. in 1996 in an attempt to see Effie P. Chow but my finances at the time did not allow it. But still when she was in Minnesota I was so skeptical that I asked to have my price of admission reduced — she dropped it in half so I only had to pay $10. I can assure you that it was a life changing experience! That was in 1995.

This article overstates the value of the profoundly incompetent modern medical system.

The longevity of modern people is not attributable to current medical care but to penicillin, basic sanitation, decreased violence and-since the 1970′s-decreased smoking. The positives of quitting smoking are greater than every pharmaceutical intervention save penicillin.

QiGong practitioners report increased warmth, which strongly suggests an hypoventilation-induced increase of CO2. CO2 is highly protective, but many breathe improperly and rely on the fermentation pathway for reasons too numerous to post. Reliance on fermentation is problematic because lactate displaces CO2 in tissues, further inhibits oxidative phosphorylation, increases estrogens, and etc.

So, it’s not surprising people find QiGong protective against a variety of ailments caused by energy stress. This is not because of mystical energies but because QiGong (and other “bullshit” modalities like meditation or even walking) can restore cellular respiration.

Of course, as QiGong is free it’s unlikely to receive funding like the next “science”-based pharmaceutical initiative. It’s ironical that the author points the finger at a free relaxation modality as a *for profit* institution and yet supports the pharmaceutical/insurance-controlled medical industry as “knowledge”. Way to be a “skeptic”, you tool.

-David R. Logan, University of Nebraska-Lincoln

[...] is a follow-up to my previous post investigating a study from the Mayo Clinic in collaboration with the University of Minnesota [...]

In 1997, when Skyler Krull was seven years old, he began having seizures. When a MRI and EEG were unable to point to a cause, Skyler’s neurologist recommended anti-seizure medication. But after trying several medications, still the seizures continued.

Just after starting seventh grade, as he was about to turn 13, Skyler’s seizures became extremely severe. Subsequent hospitalization and testing revealed a brain tumor. Skyler’s doctors felt confident that once the tumor was removed the seizures should stop. However, after a high-risk yet successful surgery at the Mayo Clinic, Skyler’s seizures actually increased to nearly continuous episodes 18 or more hours a day. Skyler was unable to attend school for two years and required around-the-clock care.

His parents continued to seek answers and took him to the best neurologists they could find who continued to recommend trials of various anti-seizure medications.
This led to Skyler at one point taking more than 30 pharmaceuticals each and every day and even more in the form of rescue or emergency meds. His doctors considered Skyler’s case the most serious of all the cases at their clinic. Since both surgery and medication were ineffective, they didn’t know what to do next.

It was at that point, in 2004 that Skyler’s mother, Lisa Proctor, learned of a Spring Forest Qigong practitioner named Lesley Vincent.* From that very first meeting with Lesley, Skyler started to improve. Using the SFQ techniques she had learned from Master Chunyi Lin Lesley helped Skyler realize that he was born with the ability to help heal himself. As Skyler explains it, “Lesley gave me my power back. Until then I was powerless and I had no life.”

It took a year to safely wean Skyler off of the more than 30 drugs he had been taking. Skyler kept improving, kept following Lesley’s guidance and as he puts it, “Lesley taught me to transform my epilepsy with love.” At Lesley’s recommendation both Skyler and Lisa studied SFQ Levels 1&2 with Master Chunyi Lin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MerE0BXoq5E

My Spring Forest Qigong Healing Story — Skyler Krull — Epileptic Seizures.m4v

It took time but with Lesley’s help and guidance Skyler has grown into a happy and healthy young man who is in college studying eastern healing modalities. His goal is to help others to heal themselves as Lesley helped him.

*In 2010, Lesley Vincent became only the second person Master Lin has ever certified as a Spring Forest Qigong Master.